did you offer them a path to get back in your life?

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  2. Give yourself time to experience NC before trying to attempt to re-engage. How you feel today is not how you will feel on 6 months or 1 year.

  3. Yes same. I just want a genuine apology and acknowledgement of wrongdoing. It seems so little and sometimes I think I’m being ridiculous that that is really my only condition to working on healing our relationship. But then I think about how absolutely enormous of an ask that is for a narcissistic person. A genuine apology is one of the biggest things I could ever ask for.

  4. I guess I kind of did indirectly. I wrote my mom a long email where I called out a lot of her lies and bad decisions that were forced upon me and actually opened up about how it affected me and my feelings, which is not a thing to do in my family. As you would expect there was no apology or acknowledgement of any wrong doing. She turned it around and blamed me and others and it was basically like boo hoo, everyone has struggles in life.

  5. I offered my mother dozens of paths. She screwed the pooch on each and every one of them. She claims it's not on purpose, but I'm past caring. How does intent matter when the end result is the same? Either you can be a decent, selfless person or you can't.

  6. No no no no no, narcs are incapable of change. Offer no path. Send no letter. Don’t be a fool with your new freedom!

  7. Well, I like your suggestion of tabling the issue but I mainly am trying to make a decision because I don't know if I want her at my wedding or not.

  8. I tried something like this and gave my father a modest road map to follow before I would go full no contact. I drew an obvious and clear line in the sand and he chose to pole vault over it. They’ll always find a way to disappoint you.

  9. Nope. I just established a boundary I had never established before and narc removed themselves. Every once in awhile they check in to test my boundary again and then disappear again when I don’t budge.

  10. Im very low contact with my mom. I regret trying to let her have access to my life. Now she feels entitled to my baby and tries to buy love from a 6 month old

  11. Just want to point out that the probability of any change in their behavior is next to none, so whatever you’re sending them, you are likely sending for the sake of yourself, not them.

  12. Agree. And I'm okay with that! I would definitely be doing it for me and to prove to anyone who has an opinion (not that I should care but ykno) that she had an out and didn't take it

  13. I sent my deeply narc mom a similar letter after going NC. The response was heart breaking for me. Basically I was accused of being toxic, sending the meanest letter she has ever received, nothing but accusations. I kept thinking if I just found a better way of explaining my feelings it would somehow get through. Never did. Hope dies last. Maybe she loves me, maybe she wants to try. Nope, impossible. NC is hard, but it is better than the alternative

  14. I did. I told my Ndad about what was going on my life after about 10 years of NC. Wanted to know what was going on with him and maybe try to see if he changed at all. If he did, I would have reopened communication with him. Big fucking NOPE. He bragged about his accomplishments and how much his life is better than mine, hopes my relationship with my future kids are destroyed, hopes something destructive happens to my future kids and my fiance, and is still calling me brainwashed. He just kept laughing and laughing through the whole conversation. He practically yelled at me too. I blocked him before he could say more. He is still a freaking monster.

  15. I think the part of your question that really stood out to me was, "I know she won't do these things." And I believe you. I think you do know that, but there's a battle going on to try to un-know that.

  16. It might help you to do it if you are having anxiety about it. This is what you would do with a person who is able to be accountable. But if you do it, promise yourself you will only do it once. Write it out for them so that you can reassure yourself that they have the information they need from you. If they wanted, they could take the email to therapy with them and work on the relationship without making more demands of you. But most likely, they will continue to try to make you feel like "the ball is in your court" and "they are here for you when you are ready" while refusing to do what the relationship needs to be a healthy, recipricol relationship. It might also help to do some EMDR therapy around the feeling that you need to be available to explain and re-explain to your needs to them. EMDR therapy has been helping me feel less like I am the only person responsible for "fixing" relationships.

  17. Well i did exactly the same thing. Except that instead of all the things id want her to change i asked for ONE. The smallest one. I asked if she would please stop interpreting everything i say and do as a personal attack against her (it had gotten to a damned if you do damned if you dont point). I explained to her that ive never wanted anything but happines for her and said it hurt me that she would think otherwise. I got an earful of insults and accusations, including that i am trying to make a fool out of her and i think shes stupid enough to fall for that.

  18. Thank you! I honestly didn't expect anyone to endorse the idea so I appreciate the honest input. Sending you love and healing, and hopes that you don't have to deal with her ever again soon!

  19. I put the cards on the table with my mother (there is no path back in for my father, hence why he didn't get the same treatment).

  20. You made a great first step in going NC. Now your next step needs to be realizing that she is never going to change. She's never going to think what she did was wrong. Offering her a path back into your life is offering her a way to weasel her way back in and love bomb, then guilt trip you some more.

  21. You know I think this is a really common desire. It’s essentially the bargaining phase over grieving the loss of a parent. Even though it was never the parent you really had but the loss of the idea of the parent you always thought/hoped you could have

  22. Only if you would value a positive relationship with that person in the future. It's a good way to go about it if you're not in danger and if it's unlikely to happen anyway. Anyone not privy to these kinds of family dynamics might view abrupt NC as overkill, leaving a clear and achievable path forward will help you look reasonable and will go help protect relationships with any outside family you value.

  23. Yep, i gave my mom a very clear path, an a way easier one than you did, i asked for an apology, not for the years of abuse, not for the hell she made me go through, just an apology for throwing me, her own son out of the house. So yeah it's been lik 10 months i don't think she's mustering the courage before she dies of old age

  24. i’m struggling with a similar issue as well, but like they say, past behavior is a decent predictor of future behavior. i’ve been through so many personal trials where i needed my nparents to show up for me and they either didn’t at all or made my situations worse. i’d love to cling to the hope that maybe if i actually physically removed myself, they’d get it. but i also have to keep reminding myself that they’ve had 37 years to feel bad for even just ONE of the things they’ve done to me, and they haven’t.

  25. I made that mistake once and let my mother wiggle herself back in. Learned that lesson fast. Only way this works is NC. She knows way too many ways to brake me and wiggle throw my armor.

  26. No. He has stolen enough of my life from me. 30 years. there is nothing on earth he could do to make it right. making it right is leaving me alone forever to heal and rebuild my life. any contact ever will be a step backward for me, and I am not about to reward someone for abusing me and programming my brain in such a negative way.

  27. I gave mine an outline… one that’s probably harsh, but I have no room for freely given forgiveness while they repeatedly bargained to minimize the accountability they have. I’ve also told them not to contact me with anything BUT them addressing my grievances (without minimizing) any more or else I’ll change all of my contact info and block their numbers for good measure.

  28. Nope, after years of dealing with mine, I just gave up. Let her know what I thought of her and left it at that. If she wanted us to have a better relationship she already had plenty of chances.

  29. I went back a few times, she would promise to change and say sorry then a day or so after they were back being as abusive and toxic. I truly wish I’d walked away completely sooner but my guilty was enough I didn’t. What a mistake, narcissists have to have full control always, the only time they may act otherwise is when they fear you won’t take it any more or have gone nc. I would have far less scars and emotional damage if I’d done what was right for me instead of worrying about an abuser that’s never once cared about me. Give them an inch they took a number of miles like always. The truth is nc was consequences of their own actions. We shouldn’t feel guilty we won’t let them abuse us.

  30. I gave the enabler a path, not the n. Still pretty bad decision. I told her all she would have to do is listen to what I had to say. I feel like that's the bare minimum. However, all the texts I sent to her were left on read.

  31. I appreciate the blunt reminder, seriously lol. I know everyone here is coming from a good place and I appreciate all the input. You're definitely not wrong and when you put it like this, it makes me want to immediately say NO CONTACT AT ALL. Thanks.

  32. She's a Narcissist & you are her supply. As for me, after LC, NC on & off for a decade, I'm out. I've begged in the simplest terms, I've written & emailed. I've asked for therapy together. In fact, my last email started with: "This is not about politics, although it didn't help...and proceeded to just say that since she loves pushing my buttons, there will simply be no more button pushing. "Know what I got back? "How sad that you're not talking to me over silly politics." You mean well, but her brain is wired for her behavior since she was a toddler. If you write to her, do it for you without an expectation of squat from her, bc that's what you'll get. Please stop smashing your head against a wall, you can't fix this & it's not your job to. Don't make it a hobby either. Good luck.

  33. The best decision I ever made was going NC. I did not invite her to my wedding and I don’t regret that. (I say wedding, but it was more like an announced elopement). She convinced my Dad, who she was divorced from, that if she wasn’t invited then he shouldn’t go either. So he didn’t come either.

  34. After explaining exactly what he needs to do in order to resume a relationship with me, it’s been 9 years or so (I’ve lost track of exactly how long it’s been now).

  35. I started with NC and gave my Nparents the option to seek therapy with me to fix our relationship so we could possibly resume contact. 2 years later and they’re still “really trying to get something setup, but…it’s a long story” According to the flying monkey. At this point I’ve had time to realize I’m so much happier without the constant drama and stress that they oozed into my daily life. I’ve never been so consistently relaxed and content, after finally escaping decades of fight or flight.

  36. I did give my mother an out when I decided I went NC for the second time--I told her that I would only pursue a relationship with her if she went through therapy and was able to genuinely admit to all the ways she had hurt me. She even had the ability to leave me voicemails for 5 years so she could have taken that path and informed me--but what she actually did was completely ignore the fact that I had even offered her a way to reconnect and instead just left me messages begging me to talk to her again without any effort on her part.

  37. I had been just over a year of NC when my brother informed me that my NM was traveling to my state to try and find me (thankfully I stopped sharing my location and address with them before that) I ripped into him how disgustingly invasive that was and if she really wanted to fix things then she has my email and I’ll be waiting for an apology. She has yet to email and I’ll be going on 3 years of NC with my whole family. Nparents never see anything wrong with what they’re doing and it’s best to just move on, as shitty as it is. From what I’ve learned, the grief of not having a family is slightly lighter than not knowing yourself when you know them.

  38. A narc will often do everything they can to wiggle back into your life from gaslighting ("what is wrong with you? You must be really sick to cut me off...") to love bombs (flowers, sweet email...). They'll send their flying monkeys to woo you ("that narc is family. We don't cut off family...").

  39. My path included contact only with a licensed therapist present. Also I made her choose the therapist so she couldn't throw that back at me. She and my step father lasted three sessions, lol. I'm still going to the therapist who is awesome.

  40. Hey, I haven’t seen a lot of comments addressing the upcoming wedding, so I want to. I didn’t realize my mom was a narcissist until this year. My wedding was 11 years ago. At the time I still would have invited her, but she hadn’t turned her cruelty on me yet. There were several glaring red flags that I wish I’d been better equipped to handle at the time.

  41. I offered them MANY OPPORTUNITIES for them to turn their attitude around. THEY FAILED EACH AND EVERYONE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My regret is not trusting my gut and not going NC SOONER.

  42. Tried the meeting with therapist….COMPLETE disaster. Might as well have thrown the money out the window. Been NC for 17 years. Best decision ever in my life. No going back. I’m 55 now.

  43. I initiated NC three days ago, it’s hard as hell being as she lives down the street and my kids want to see her all the time. These comments are helpful. This is hard.

  44. Yes, I sent each of my (married) nparents a letter outlining what they needed to do to be in our lives prior to going nc. They weren't able to/chose not to abide by the healthy boundaries that I set, so I went nc. They tried to break it by getting my lc siblings involved, sending me guilt tripping letters etc. however all of their actions just enforced why I was nc with them.

  45. Yes I did. Primarily because my covert narc mom loves to be the victim and would have milked me "keeping her from her grandkids" for every bit of attention she could get. Now she can't really do that. But also because I would honestly love it if we could rebuild the relationship on mutual respect. I'm not expecting that to happen at all though as I had already suggested therapy to my mom years ago and was promptly told "she didn't need therapy, I was the one with the problem." This time I set it so that my parents have to schedule a family therapy session that my husband and myself would attend (sans kids) to work things out. I know full well that they won't do it and received confirmation from my sister that they just repeated what they said years ago.

  46. I held out hope for quite awhile that my Narc would some day "Wake up" and realize how they were hurting everyone.

  47. For years and years, I tried. But ultimately I don’t think it would have made a difference: the things I needed were the things that they didn’t have to give in the first place. Honestly, consideration, empathy. After a while, I closed the door because a tiny part of me was always watching, hoping they would turn into the good parents I always needed. I couldn’t move forward till I shut that door.

  48. Yes, he is Narc and used economic violence, I suggested therapy for a long time as a condition to meet and I don't know why or how he ended going to therapy (I know it wasn't because of my request) for some months and he got better.

  49. Yes and she followed my boundaries on the surface for a couple months before the mask of sanity fell. I needed to do that to get the emotional closure and certainty I needed. I don’t recommend it for anyone else though as advice unless you personally feel like it’s the right path.

  50. I had her try to contact me many times after going NC. Eventually after blocking two emails and her phone number, when she contacted me from a third email, I decided to respond. I told her what she had done for me to cut her off and told her that if she wanted to have a chance at reestablishing contact, she would need to do a lot of self-reflection, sincerely apologize for all she had done, and the biggest thing, leave me alone until I was ready to contact her. I told her that I would probably not be ready to talk for a while, because I was not in an emotional spot to speak to her. I knew going in she wasn't going to listen. I sent it because I wanted to be sound in my decision and knowledge that she would not change and was not willing to do so, and so I could bring it up if anyone in my family decided to be a shit about cutting her off - "hey, I tried to fix it and she refused." Surprise surprise, she didn't respond well and I blocked her a few months after she responded.

  51. i tried for 4-5 years with my mother, and i’ll admit she was putting on a great act, even fooled my husband lol. it was hell for me because i knew how vile and cruel she was but it’s like i’m looking at a completely different woman. this last month the other shoe finally dropped, and she threw a tantrum when i opened up to her, so she’s no longer a part of my life :) it was rough at first but now i’m just focusing on me and what makes me happy and safe.

  52. I have done this, I've requested they go to their own individual therapy before we reconvene for a family counseling session. They refuse and tell me I should speak to a priest, so they have made their choice to remain NC. They can put effort forth into reversing that decision whenever they would like.

  53. When I went NC with my Mom over 1 year ago, I did give her a path to get back in my life. Pretty much, to apologize properly and sincerely and be accountable for the physical/emotional/psychological abuse she put me through. As well as continue to be accountable going forward in the future, and to support me. To be respectful, kind, and caring to me (like I treat her.) I doubt that any of these things will ever happen though, and even if they do, the most she could earn with me is to be low contact, not no contact. In the year since then, she has claimed that I am lying to her friends about the abuse I went though, accused me of stealing something of hers from a bank safety deposit, said that me and my bf shouldn't get married and that he's only with me for my money, said that I don't deserve to have a trust and I should have it all taken away, and said that I am still an awful and untrustworthy person (everything that I heard through my Dad and sister). Everything that she's done has only solidified my decision to be NC with her, and just proved that I know in my heart that I made the right decision. In my expirience, I wouldn't give narcs any way back into your life, they will most likely take that, and use it to hurt you all over again. These people are incredibly sick and most will never recover. It's sad but true. Do what's best for you.

  54. I have been NC with my dad for 6 years now and I have never given him any opportunity to change. He had 16 years of my life to chance and he didn’t so one day I decided enough was enough (my mom had full custody at the time anyways he was just a weekend dad) and I completely ghosted him. People like them don’t change. Why would they they don’t see anything wrong with their behaviour and you can’t convince them to see differently. My father is now dying and that brings up a whole lot of emotional issues for me but I refuse to give in. I know he wants to see me I know it hurts him that I, in his own words, turned my back on him but I refuse to let him win by coming back into his life in any capacity. He will die without ever hearing from me again, without any explanation from me about why I left and I can live with that. He’s a smart guy, if he hasn’t figured out why I left by now he never will. Don’t give your mother the opportunity to hurt you again, you don’t deserve to be let down again

  55. I called her to tell her I had just gotten engaged. The exact words that came out of her mouth were "call your father for money"

  56. If you give them a script to follow with a big pay off at the end (your wedding) they will follow it to get the rewards and the punish you for it.

  57. I did. We offered to let my NMom visit and call. No texts because she was sending these long, ranting texts to myself and my child that were beyond frustrating. No visits to her home because we were told we weren't welcome by her husband. Anyway, she was invited to visit us but that wasn't good enough. First, she was broke and didn't have gas money. We offered money. She still couldn't be bothered to visit. Then, she was having vehicle problems. My sister offered to pick her up. More excuses. Finally, it got back to us through the grapevine that she was playing the victim like always and telling everyone we'd cut her off and blocked her calls and emails. After that, we gave her exactly what she wanted and blocked her number and have zero contact.

  58. I was in very limited contact with my parents for the past two years (moved out Aug 2020) and visited a couple months ago. Honestly, they hated not having me around, kept begging me to move back in, but said they understood I was settled states away. In literally the last four hours of my visit, my mom managed to tell me I owe it to myself to tell her why I left. How did I not realize she’d put me on the spot? She’d been making passive aggressive remarks about me leaving the whole two days I agreed to stay. I blanked, and failed to tell her of her emotional manipulation. It’s never easy to look your own mother in the eye and tell her she’s a narcissist. She deflected the few serious things I did bring up, and hugged it out with me bc I conceded to her and I felt her really hurting underneath, she genuinely doesn’t know she’s this far gone. I will know exactly what to say to her one day, but my therapist told me that if I was going to visit, it has to be on all my terms. If you feel you really need to leave a list for them, it’s prob not worth going.

  59. Well kinda, my sister was getting her hair done. She asked, "are you having sex?" And we started talking after that(I can't remember the full details). Cried about me being gone but never apologized. After a family trip to New Orleans I tried to live with them again, didn't work.

  60. The day I went NC I became an orphan. That was my decision. I've never regretted it for an instant. Do you want kids? I did. Want them to experience even a little of what you did? I didn't.

  61. I don't have any advice for you, but since you mentioned about your wedding, I'd like to share my experience with you. I went temporarily NC with my nmom because she was supposed to sew me a veil. She wanted to design flowers for the whole ceremony, put bouquets on the pew ends, etc. We only were going to have less than 20 people there and were paying for everything but the cake ourselves. (My aunt paid for the cake.) My mom wouldn't leave it alone, so I told her that she was disinvited to the wedding. My dad was the only family member there, and he gave me away in both their names. My mom was very hurt by it, but after a couple years she apologized and our relationship got better after that because I think a switch finally flipped because she started having better communication skills with everyone.

  62. I cut my family off because they would rather side with my drug addicted brother, who threatened to kill me daily for 6 months, than me and my daughter. They were offended that I let her get adopted by someone outside of the family. I trusted them to keep her away from my ex, her father and his family. They wouldn't have any way to reach her(hes in prison for 40 years).

  63. I have a path/requirements in my mind that I worked out with my therapist to even consider it.but did NOT tell them that as they can barely make it a week without violating the one boundary I set with them.

  64. Only do it for yourself! I think we all know here narcs will never ever change. For me, I said verbally and written via text all I wanted was an apology and accountability around a specific event (although there are countless events). Of course Ndad doubled down. I do have peace (and less guilt) in knowing I said it plainly & simply. Now I’m living my best NC life and healing in these past 3+ years! Good luck OP!

  65. I told mine that I needed them to admit that what they did to me really happened and that they needed to sincerely apologize, otherwise I didn’t want to hear from them again.

  66. I did, I told ndad that if he wants back in mine and my kids lives he will have to be honest with the family about the abuse he put me through. I did this knowing full well that he will never do it.

  67. I did. In my NC letter it said something close to "If you want to have a relationship, show this conversation and this message to your psych." At first she thought going NC and telling her I was trashing my SIM card was a bluff and continued calling and texting me, surprised and angry her texts were going unread. Then, when she harassed me over email and I told her to read the message again, she just sent a long email gaslighting me over each of the examples I gave of her failures to parent me adequately. She doesn't believe me capable of setting boundaries and therefore hasn't even identified the one in the NC message for what it is.

  68. No. She's had all the information all this time. She's never once done anything to make me think she deserves to keep getting to break my heart.

  69. I haven’t spoken to my dad in 4 years. I told myself I wouldn’t give him reasons or a list of how to get me back, or whatever. Why is it my job to give him a task list on how to reconcile? I would hope a fully grown man could figure out how to say sorry, but he hasn’t - I’m sure he would have if I had given him a list, and I’d be back to being manipulated in no time. Is it really a sorry if you had to beg for it?

  70. Before going NC, I talked to my NParents and GC brother about it. I told them if they stopped interfering with my personal matters, respected my boundaries, went to therapy and talked in a respectful manner, I'd be willing to reconsider. But in that conversation itself, they started gaslighting me and started blaming me for all things gone wrong. So I went NC, it hasn't been easy. Knowing that they had the option between a normal relationship and NC and they still chose the latter hurt me. But its also what helped me go NC.

  71. I told my mother she needed to acknowledge what she did to me and that I couldn't pretend anymore for show that she had not treated me this way and that she needed to stop gaslighting me. And she needed to give me time to heal.

  72. My therapist has recently been encouraging me to create a list of “hard boundaries” that my nmom would need to follow before I allow her back into my life…. This thread helped me realize.. fuckkkk all of that!

  73. Don’t open this door if you value your sanity. They’re just going to find other ways to play you. Don’t do it to yourself. I tried to give my nfamily a way back in 2 years ago. Biggest mistake of my life. They were nice for a few months and then it got worse than it’s ever been. I had to go NC last month, I was having major panic attacks every time my phone made a sound thinking they were calling. I finally snapped and hit the block button. I didn’t give any warning. Best decision of my life! The panic attacks are dying down, the weird feeling I’ve had all my life is starting to vanish (I learned recently that this feeling is anxiety and I’ve never known a life without it). I’m feeling happier and laughing and I’m having fun for the first time in forever. Live your life, it can be so much better without the abuse and the stress

  74. I’ve been no contact almost three years and it’s been genuinely peaceful and wonderful. Recently my nmother started reaching out, she wants to “talk” and “make amends.” You can’t really talk out thirty years of abuse. I feel like if I outline things she would need to do in order to be in my life again she would just never do them but she would only have herself to blame for her inaction and wouldn’t be able to say I was ignoring her. So, not sure. But definitely give yourself more time, it’s only been two days.

  75. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile- is basically how it is with narcissists. Give them anything and they will only demand more until you cut them off completely. Especially if they refuse therapy, or to admit their wrongdoings. But a big part of narcissism is the inability to admit you are wrong, which is why they never get better. People can change if they try, but why would a narcissist feel any need to change if they’re never the problem?

  76. I'm in a similar predicament. I've resigned myself to staying NC (my nmom has been adamant that she will not go to therapy, apologize, or make any life changes), she has not congratulated my partner or I on the birth of our daughter or on our engagement. I've accepted the fact that she will not be there for our wedding, neither will any other narc relatives (dad and aunt) and that some of her flying monkeys will likely boycott the wedding (my grandparents, some of my other aunts). I spoke to people who had nrelatives at their wedding and they regretted it hugely! The nrelatives spent the whole wedding trying to sabotage things, wore all black, behaved inappropriately etc. and they did not recommend inviting them. I wouldn't invite the narc in your life if I were you, they're unlikely to change unfortunately. Hope your wedding goes well!!

  77. I did offer a way out of NC, which mainly consisted of cutting out alcohol and getting therapy. Took forever to come to terms with my decision as going NC broke my heart but the anxiety and fear they gave me was worse in the end.

  78. I considered going NC for years but I’d always attempt to try and make her see how she was harming me, hopeful and naive. I asked her to go to therapy, she went for about two months then abruptly quit. I would ask her for all kinds of behavior changes and id see her making an attempt but at the slightest hint of stress it would all fall apart. i actually regret those years when I thought about NC, didn’t go through with it and then endured even more abuse. all because I felt guilty, or held onto false hope that maybe if I could just phrase it the right way I could get through to her and I could still have a mom. the fact that I couldn’t leave was by design, her behavior towards me was despicable but I always convinced myself it didn’t really happen or I was “playing the victim” or “being over emotional”. She raised me to gaslight myself about how she treated me so that’s what I did.

  79. I understand why you feel this way. You want to make sure you feel like you did everything possible because so many things have been “your fault” and you want to make sure this isn’t.

  80. I did. Mine are severe alcoholics. I said get sober for a year and come talk to me then. It's been 3 and a half years and they're still drinkin like fish

  81. Lol, I asked my nMom to delete pictures of my wedding off of FaceBook (I paid for the photographer, and she agreed to not post the pictures before she received them). She wouldn't even do that much.

  82. It is unacceptable to call community members narcissists, especially given what subreddit you're posting in. If you have a problem with the post, you can do any of the following alternatives:

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