U/adarafaelbarbas breaks down why the anti-LGBTQ "groomer" narrative and the view of homosexual love as inherently sexual is so genocidally dangerous.

  1. The conservative crusade against the alleged grooming would be more believable had they not consistently voted in groomers as long as they have (R) next to their names.

  2. He barely lost and it basically took national outrage to prevent his victory. I think if it had slipped under the radar and not been I think a special election in an off year, then I’m not sure he doesn’t win.

  3. Don’t forget their Lord and Savior Trump who has more rape accusations than anyone and was friends with Epstein

  4. They love keeping women ‘in their place’ (uneducated, unresourced, and unable to talk back) and their greatest fear is to not have the power of their toxic masculinity. Gay men being put in a woman’s place by another man is the ultimate affront to their whole value system. Sex is a tool for power and dominance and pleasurable for the penetrating party - they can’t understand anything outside of that. I think.

  5. Dennis hastert, speaker of the house for a decade, admitted serial pedophile rapist as a gym teacher, went to jail for conspiracy to cover it up.

  6. It's just another distraction from the fact that 19 children got shot less than a month ago by a completely legal tool designed specifically to take human life.

  7. It's deflection. Scream and point at someone else that they're committing some heinous act so you can commit the act yourself while everyone's looking away. Phony over-the-top outrage convinces gullible people you're innocent. Why would you be so upset if you were guilty, you know?

  8. It's like how people cry that kids are too young to understand slavery and racism and it'll just confuse and upset them and make them "too" aware of differences, but are more than happy to discuss the ins and outs of the Holocaust with kids of virtually every age.

  9. I was talking with my therapist about all the Holocaust literature (or, i guess, anti-holocaust lit.) that we read in 7th grade and how, while we spend all this time going over the horrors of WWII, we NEVER had any discussion on how to recognize facism or how germany went from the progressive Weimar Republic to the third reich. Discussions, which imo are equally if not more important than knowing that it happened. It makes it seem like the bigotry and violence are all in the past and we've progressed beyond it, and that it could never happen here. But thats a dangerously oversimplified understanding of both human nature and history.

  10. Ironically I definitely remember passages from Anne Frank about her trying to talk her friend into letting her touch their breasts and how pictures of naked women had always sent her into "ecstasy". In the 90s, diary of Anne Frank WAS kind of the first time we had a sexually queer protagonist in a school book.

  11. The people against teachers those things do so because they want to control their kids ideology I feel. And once they realise it's virtually impossible to just brute force someone to think like you without putting in actual effort, the next best thing is to just not expose them to it at all. Can't have an opinion if you (supposedly) don't even know it exists.

  12. Yet those same people are happily telling their kids to stay away from certain parts of town and be wary of "those people" and so on.

  13. This relative of a friend actually had her kid excused from reading that book and going to a Holocaust museum in highschool because it was too upsetting and she'd teach it at home, which I doubt she did

  14. Don’t forget the obsession with Jack the Ripper to the extent that the crimes attributed to him are deemed appropriate for sixth grade curriculum.

  15. The people who are saying “slavery is too complex for kids” are the ones that want to read bible stories to kids. Bible stories like Moses and the exodus from Egypt….which they left because of slavery. Kids understand slavery, it’s unpleasant to tell them “one group of people was taken from their homelands and kept as slaves for a 100 years. But instead of going home like Moses did, they kind of stayed here and were kept in poverty for another 100 years”

  16. That's EXACTLY why they are drawing those lines. The people pushing these narratives are brainwashing their masses to get used to calling for violence and blood. It's on purpose and they know what they're doing.

  17. I had someone calling me a paedophile on reddit for not thinking "Lightyear" was bad for featuring a brief gay peck. Like... we are not talking French kisses. We are talking "married couple briefly saying I love you before moving on".

  18. It's like they're reviving all the back in the day homophobia. If you've ever seen the infamed "Boys Beware" psa from 1961, homosexuals were completely synonymous with pedophiles. People would always speak about "homosexuals" working jobs that involved kids like sports coach or teacher or priest. The idea that not only is the very presence of gay people around children dangerous, but that there is essentially no distinction between being gay or being a molester.

  19. Everyone who isnt a rich male evangelical wasp is a target. They want to be running plantations with the rest of us tending their fields and being thankful for the privilege.

  20. I hate that they've sexualized the word "groomer". I bathe and trim dogs for a living- I'm a dog groomer. But now i guess I'm a dog hair stylist.

  21. Former teacher, also a lesbian. I put in a lot of effort to not talk about my wife even when asked, because I had a lot of shitty parents who would've got all political about the existence of a visibly queer person within 2km of their child. I didn't really give a shit if the kids were over 15 though, at that point the probability is low that I would be penalised for anything even if a parent DID complain and try to start shit.

  22. It's a lot harder to deprogram people who were taught wrong than to educate people correctly in the first place. Don't let those already bigoted take up your energy. Focus on educating the next generation with tolerance and acceptance and you will do much more good.

  23. If you have the chance to teach people, there may be some value in explaining how this is just the Blood Libel, for gay people. There’s centuries of history in this sort of thing, to whip people up for a pogrom.

  24. I've been teaching two years and have been out at school since my first year when I decided to not lie when a kid, after mulling over the fact I said yes to a girl who asked if I had a bf in HS after asking relationship advice said " Ms. _____ no cap but you look like you like girls but you had a bf in HS."

  25. Oh and here's a thing: they will absolutely use marriage certificates to locate LGBT people. They did it before in Virginia to find people who weren't white enough.

  26. I’ve accepted that my marriage might not exist in the future due to the failure of our democracy but ponder on how to avoid it being located in the future.

  27. This is why one of my worries is that the Republicans will attempt to circumvent the ban on ex post facto laws. Gay marriage being overturned would be disastrous, but it would ultimately just nullify a lot of marriages, which wouldn't be enough for far-righters who want queer people punished for existing. They'll be looking for any way they can jail anyone who was ever involved in a non-straight marriage.

  28. Commenting late but they could also seize metadata to see what users have downloaded gay dating/hook-up apps and even catch those who are closeted.

  29. It is exhausting and infuriating how much people throw groomer out and don’t even think for a second what they’re doing by throwing that around so casually.

  30. Nobody wants to make straight cis kids gay or trans. We just want LGBT+ kids to make it to adulthood happy and healthy and not have to go through the things that we did. Every post on LGBT+ subreddits from a closeted kid who is worried they’ll lose their home or be abused absolutely breaks my heart. And I’m becoming more and more concerned for my safety as well. It’s terrible thinking about how high your chance of being assaulted is before you decide to go somewhere. Or wondering if your access to healthcare will suddenly be cut off. I’m seeing more posts in queer subreddits from folks wondering if they should be seriously thinking about leaving the country now or if Canada will accept us as political refugees. We’re scared.

  31. My city’s pride celebration is this weekend. I’m not going because I’m worried about violence. Look at what happened in Idaho. They arrested those people, but stuff like that worries me. I hate to live in fear like this, but I don’t think I’m being unreasonable by staying home. I just hate that I have to consider such things.

  32. Absolutely 100% accurate. I’ve studied this shit, and I’m legitimately scared of what’s happening in the US right now. It’s scary. It’s Anita Bryant 2.0, happening faster and with trickier rhetoric, and it’s already approaching moral panic status.

  33. Also, nobody is groomed to be gay, but fucking everybody is groomed to be straight. If you could teach people to have a certain sexual orientation, everyone would be straight.

  34. Hey, as a Christian I just want to say I'm sorry you went through that and I'm happy you've found yourself. What they did was shitty and you deserved better.

  35. In 2016 it was bathrooms. In 2020 it was school sports. In 2022 it’s taking kids away from their parents. There is not a risk of this happening. It is currently happening.

  36. That or some of us are so desensitized that we stopped caring as nothing really phases us or we don't really have anything to live for anymore.

  37. I've always found people against homosexual rights think of only the sexual aspect and most people for their rights think about the love and relationship.

  38. What is so absolutely asinine is that conservative Christians literally send their children to camps to make them straight! And many are absolutely tortured.

  39. I am 100% stealing “if you can explain a pregnant woman to a child, you can explain a gay relationship.” That’s a great analogy I have never heard.

  40. Next time people wanna yell groomers at lgbtq people, just bring up a list of republicans they voted for and their list of grooming crimes and start listing them off.

  41. Their base SHOULD care about that, but I don't see evidence that they do care. Their hate seems to be stronger than their logic.

  42. The problem is they can yell the word groomer louder and faster and more frequently than we can read a list, even though the list may be more damning. Need a faster response, gets through the blood brain barrier before they have time to engage their antibodies to reason

  43. I’ve often thought the Biden Administration is reminiscent of the Weimar government. One last weak, ineffectual shot at democracy before it all collapses.

  44. There are parallels indeed. Germany under the weimar republic was actually very progressive and extremely sexually liberal. Look up berlin weimar republic. Add that to a failing economy and we have a very interesting picture.

  45. Having generations of family that have grown up in authoritarian and communist rule and hearing all the stories they have told, I can confidently say we are not living in Germany ca. 1930 and we are not close to it.

  46. Im sorry to be the devils advocate here, I genuinely support LGBTQ rights, but PLEASE, if you have MAPs attending your marches and meetings, Take responsibility and kick them out! The last time there was pride here in my home town, MAPs showed up handing out brochures, the organizers was asked to do something but took the stance that it "wasnt their problem" because they where a gay couple themselves without kids.

  47. Using the term groomer is hate speech. It’s either homophobic or ageist. There’s no legitimate reason for it to exist except to belittle people for having opposing ideals to your own

  48. I love how people are like, "But what will happen to the kids?" My mother had a couple of friends who were a gay couple. I'm asked one of them once when I was like 8, "What kind of people are you?" I asked because I grew up in a heteronormative household. I asked because one time, they let us spend the night but only had one bed. You know what they told me? "Oh, we're gay."

  49. That's the same narrative Doug Ford used to win an Ontario election in 2018, after it was discovered that a school official who was responsible for inclusive curriculum was a pedophile.

  50. Libertarians are just Republicans who understand it’s embarrassing to say that out loud around non-GQP supporters.

  51. There's recordings of pastors and members of the congregation in churches in Texas (Arlington and DFW-area specifically, but this sure as hell isn't endemic to Texas) shouting about people who happen to be homosexual or trans to be executed.

  52. Copied and saved this from somewhere else, thought it would apply here: Republicans in government convicted of pedophilia.

  53. The absolutely infuriating irony of this is so many Christian pastors and militant fundamentalists are literal groomers with criminal histories for assaulting minors.

  54. Yeah my partner went through a lot of those things back when they were growingup in an authoritarian Christian home, so I'm always trying to push back on much of my lots... less then positive relations with the rest of the LGBT. It's stupid and I want to build bridges, and hopefully practice the spread the love part that we're supposed to practice. I'll hopefully let people who are also Christian members of the LGBT that it's OK and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

  55. The line is very clear and simple: grooming is about making kids (or anyone, it can work on adults too) think that having their free will denied, not requiring their consent, and forcing them into behavior/relationships they find uncomfortable is normal.

  56. I know this isn't every case, but in the case of the person I was arguing with, they actually DMed me and said I'd opened their eyes. They admitted they had the exact bias I pointed out of assigning sexual motivations to innocent things LGBT people do, and they were going to re-examine it and try to advocate better. Granted, their case isn't exactly typical because most of the people we're dealing with lack that self-awareness, but when it's "otherwise normal person who has been manipulated by alt right propaganda" vs "looney evangelical who wants to execute 70% of the country" the odds are much better.

  57. Enemies Domestic the GOP are slavishly following the Nazi playbook and have clearly picked queer folk to be the dangerous/pathetic other that Jewish folk were used as in WW2. This current run at trans people is sinister and self-aware. It's blood boiling.

  58. as a gay man who teaches greek over skype calls to teens, i never understood why i have to explain to them my sexuality and my relationships with ppl. im there to teach greek

  59. In American classrooms, teachers regularly share small details about their personal lives, including anecdotes about their family and marriage partners. Straight teachers have always done this. It shouldn't be any different for trans or gay teachers.

  60. Because you're teaching Greek, not health. Why the hell would sexuality be a lesson in your class besides a quick aside to cover the various terms?

  61. I’m sure the Republicans know this perfectly well, which is why they’re trying to seize absolute power now and make elections irrelevant before their most reliable voters all die.

  62. Unfortunately, things probably aren't going to happen that way. There are a lot of younger (20s-30s) people getting into far right politics. The old conservatism is dying, but the new exciting fascism seems to be rising.

  63. You are so incredibly wrong. Things are going to get much much worse. As bad as they’ve ever been.

  64. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but there are people who genuinely have been manipulated by right wing propaganda. They aren't the majority, no, but the person I was arguing with in that thread DMed me that I had changed their mind. Every mind changed is a good thing in times like these.

  65. From now on, every time I see someone using "groomer" rhetoric on Reddit, I'll be reporting them for inciting violence. I suggest everyone else do the same.

  66. Let’s use some critical thinking here. The pride movement and parades. The drag shows. Inviting kids to these events where there is nudity, sex, dildos, extreme acts of sexuality. Is this what “pride” is all about? I know plenty of gay people who frown upon what people are bringing there kids to. Drag shows with half naked men dressed as women stripping and accepting cash. This is grooming. It’s not dangerous to see what it is. You don’t see that in normal parades.

  67. People used to think that Jews would straight up kidnap children to convert them to Judaism or sacrifice them for Passover. Jewish people in schools, media, and academia were scapegoated for "corrupting the youth" in pre-Nazi Germany. The comparison isn't farfetched.

  68. Conservative Christians are pro Israel because they believe that it fulfills a part of end times prophecy. That doesn't mean they aren't antisemitic

  69. Yeah but neither of these things are happening on a scale even close to level it's being screamed about by conservatives. Y'all can say all you like about what it's meant to be but we see the things you keep coming about and how much every law your politicians pass reaches way beyond your proposed scope. You aern't fooling anyone.

  70. Sometimes where there’s smoke there’s fire, other times it’s fucking awful people with a smoke machine. Look up moral panics to answer your last question.

  71. No one's pushing children into transitioning because children can't medically transition because they're undeveloped and transitioning isn't used to cure or treat insecurity and anxiety, it's used to treat gender dysphoria which goes deeper than just feeling bad.

  72. People shouldn’t be sexually grooming children. Gay, straight, furry or whatever. Don’t talk to children who aren’t yours about sex. It’s not complicated at all.

  73. I agree, thats why you also protest all those groomer disney movies too right? Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast and all the rest. Pushing their sexual relationships on children, telling them its normal to have relationships with men and women. Kissing and getting pregnant in movies targetted at children, bunch of perverts.

  74. Gay people existing isn't inherently sexually explicit. If you're ok with your kid seeing two opposite sex couples holding hands in a park or watching more or less any disney movie, but not ok with acknowledging the existence of LGBT people you don't care about grooming, you're just a sack of shit.

  75. I'm telling you this as a gay man; you only find the sex at pride if you actively look for it and know where to find it.

  76. To answer your question about why Pride is so sexual, as OP outlines, it’s sexual because straight society chose to associate being LGBT inextricably with deviant sexuality. That is how the fight for LGBT rights was framed as a fight about the right and wrong kinds of sex. And, because straight society was trying to oppose LGBT lifestyles by claiming that they were embodiments of “bad sex”, one of the ways that LGBT people fought against this angle of attack was to point out that non-traditional sex isn’t actually bad for anyone, as long as it was between consenting adults. The puritanical beliefs that good people only practice “good sex” were inextricably linked with oppressing LGBT people, so the defense of LGBT people from persecution became linked with opposing those puritanical beliefs about sex.

  77. I'm sorry you can't seperate homosexuality from sexual abuse but that is a personal problem that you should not force on others, especially seeing as most grooming crimes are done by straight married men

  78. Gay rights isn't normalising grooming, you're incredibly weird for thinking that it is. You've got issues, stop projecting them into others

  79. Is there a middle ground where we are not homophobic but also doing want young kids influenced to take puberty blockers and get surgery to change their sex?

  80. It's hard to take this comment seriously because we already have this middle ground. Puberty blockers and surgery are treatments. It's not like there's TV commercials playing in between cartoons saying "ask your doctor about changing your gender today!"

  81. Children are not getting surgery first of all. Even adults have to wait years to get gender confirming surgery. Y'all make it seem like 14 year olds are going to planned Parenthood and saying, "One surgery please."

  82. Puberty blockers being easily accessible is the middle ground. They are completely safe and fully reversible. Children are not having surgery. As it is right now, the process for obtaining any kind of gender-related healthcare usually takes months and multiple independent psychologist evaluations. It is not easy to obtain. Laws are being passed right now to stop it being covered by insurance and parents of trans kids are being reported for child abuse. We’re way past the middle ground already.

  83. That's exactly what OP is warning against. They're not being influenced or groomed to be this way. They inherently question their gender at a young age, and through a long, complicated psychological analysis and steps taken, will eventually have their physical form changed when they're deemed ready by numerous professionals.

  84. Nobody is influencing these things. There's no indoctrination effort to produce more trans kids. As usual, this is projection from conservatives who are interested in indoctrinating children with warped Bronze age views based only on religious superstitions. They are the ones trying to privatize education so they can spend their tax-free church money building charter schools to avoid oversight and brainwash children with their false Christian version of nature and history. They represent a type of mental cancer caused by religion, which is a clear and present danger to us all. Fuck them.

  85. The framing of your question is partially what is driving your downvotes. Take a look at your word choice: "...influenced to take puberty blockers".

  86. Kids cannot undergo bottom surgery. They are kids. Their bodies are underdeveloped. Kids can only take puberty blockers and later HRT after literal years of therapy and screening. These treatments can also be reversed.

  87. Why would you want to intervene in medical treatment prescribed by a doctor meant to improve or save a person's life?

  88. You are at best being misguided. I urge you to spend some time self reflecting on your concerns - if they're real, or manufactured and fed to you

  89. You know why more people are coming out? Because you can't be jailed for it anymore. And there are support systems that didn't exist in the past. That's it.

  90. Anyone who thinks puberty blockers are completely safe when they literally cause infertility and a whole host of medical problems stemming from puberties being a necessary function of the human body (brittle bones, less developed brain, etc) are lying to themselves

  91. No children are getting gender affirming surgery. Only teens and pre-teens that have reached the first stage of puberty take puberty blockers. Puberty blockers delay puberty further, nothing more. No young children are being influenced to do irreparable damage to their bodies. Please get educated on this topic more thoroughly before you make statements like this.

  92. No doctor would ever do such surgery on children. It's wildly unethical to do surgery without years earlier steps being taken, and for the patient to not at least be 18. Anyone telling you it happens is lying to you.

  93. That can be seen as vote brigading by the Reddit admins. In general, if you're linked to a post or comment, it's safer not to vote or comment on it. Especially if you're not a member of that community.

  94. If you read the linked post, it goes into detail how heteroromance can be understood as non-sexual. There are countless stories and fables that depict heteroromance (Sleeping Beauty, Beauty & the Beast, etc). No one bats an eye at children being exposed to that, and the stories have no reference to sex. But the moment you have an innocent story with two dads, two moms, etc, it's framed as "teaching kids about sex". It's a double-standard.

  95. So heterosexual love is inherently sexual too. Guess we can't let kids learn about any other kids having a mommy and a daddy! Or see a pregnant lady - that's literally proof sex was had!

  96. I agree that we as a society should be kinder to non-offending pedophiles, but given that this thread is about how LGBT people are demonized as offending pedophiles, this is really not the time or place to beat that drum

  97. The subject is the conflation of queer people with sexual abuse of children. Your comment is only relevant in that it does the same thing.

  98. Can't treat them without research, can't research without openness, can't be open so long as everyone's out to kill them. Shove it in the dark and leave it to fester for the next generation, yeah? Thus your response to gays being pedophiles logically being, 'and? how would that make them a bad person?' gets you accused of 'normalizing' their existence. Best give the whole thing a miss and never bring it up, the social capital necessary to make any progress on this particular disorder is so high as to be prohibitive, so is better spent on other issues, where most of your allies won't be the type with nothing to lose (and nothing to add), or the most distasteful sorts of beings. The collateral is a price they're willing to pay for playing pretend.

  99. You've had quite a few people dunk on you already, so you may already know this, but, even if you genuinely believe what you claim regarding pedos, the LGBTQIA+ community does not want to take pedos into their community. That may sound harsh to you, because their community features multiple different preferences and identities, but it's true. They also aren't necessarily an advocate group specifically for left-handed people, atheists, Star Trek fans, etc. Not every person can fit under their umbrella, and that's OK because taking on too many subgroups would start to detract from the progress that they are fighting for. That may change eventually, and perhaps it should, but it's not the reality right now.

  100. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Genocide doesn't include just not having children on your own, or every infertile couple, or worse yet single individual, would be locked up for life.

  101. Fun fact, there is research which suggests that it is beneficial to society in the long term to have members who dont reproduce.

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