2018 World Junior Investigation Megathread

  1. Based on the story yesterday about a player witnessing the event, but not knowing what he saw...this is pure speculation...but I think formenton invited batherson to the room but he didn't participate.

  2. I suspect Batherson hasn't made a statement, because he knows Formenton was involved (or even the ring leader) and didn't want to throw him under the bus publicly. Acknowledge it's a bit tin foil hat of me

  3. Interesting mention of Batherson by Chabot in the latest WAM (at the 36:30 mark). Asked about which players had been active in recent a group chat (about a potential new entrance song for the Sens), he said that he'd been chatting with "Chucky, Norris, Batherson and Timmy".

  4. I noticed this too. I also think it’s odd that Formenton seems excluded in stuff like this AND hasn’t been resigned yet. I have a feeling formenton was involved

  5. So with hardly any new details coming out and it becoming unlikely the names of the players will be revealed how do batherson and formenton respond in training camp? I can't imagine journalists like Ian Mendes won't be asking any questions about this. Should we expect a statement? Avoiding questions about it is going to look very suspect. It just seems weird that this might be swept away (again).

  6. The lawyer who is running the investigation for hockey Canada said anyone who doesn't co-operate with the investigation will be named publicly and banned from playing for HC.

  7. Based on the numbers alone at least 1 or 2 of the guys who have made statements are lying, If I was either's lawyer I would say wait till everything comes out before saying anything. I also think Dorion might have asked both not to comment since he didn't when asked about the situation.

  8. Ngl Batherson freely posting on his story today kinda reassured me even if it doesn’t mean anything really. I feel like he’d be completely quiet on social media if he did rape her. Maybe this is more me hoping he didn’t do it

  9. He has been liking Stu and Brady's posts over the last week, Forms on the other hand is MIA and I'm getting a little concerned, quite a few guys from the team have completely washed their social media some coincidentally to around may 2018 so read into that however much you want.

  10. The westhead article states 8 CHL players including but not limited to the WJC team. I hate that people are hyper fixated on Batherson on twitter. It could be any number of the 8 that were on the WJC team. The fact that he hasn't spoken out yet isn't damning, its good legal advice from a lawyer. There's a active investigation no need to complicate things. Also the people that have released statements are incredibly weak. Saying stuff like "deny any wrong doing" that just means that they viewed it as consensual. More will come out. We just need to wait

  11. Here I have to be the “rapist defender” but I bet they genuinely don’t think they raped anyone. She went back to the hotel for consensual sex with the first guy.

  12. I honeslty think the people who submitted those statements just saying "I did no wrongdoing" are much more suspect than those who said nothing.

  13. I think this will go a long way in restoring confidence in the criminal process. I just worry what this will do to the victim if charges are pressed. SA trials are brutal as the Virtanen defence strategy shows.

  14. Does anybody have a link to info about the court filings incorrectly identifying the 8 players as chl players, when they actually meant they were all canadian pro players rather than canadian hockey league players?

  15. What are you guys thoughts on potential fallout for this? It seems unlikely these guys will be charged criminally. If they aren't charged and the names do come out what should the fallout be? Some people calling for their careers to be over but I'm not so sure that's reasonable. The NHL and potentially Ottawa Senators are going to be under a lot of public pressure to do something.

  16. The crime side of things is honesty irrelevant to me at this point. I can't imagine letting 7 of my boys in the room against her knowledge to go at a her for hours.

  17. If there’s no criminal charges than the fall out should be zero, what we’re gonna ruin peoples careers for something they haven’t been convicted of doing? Haven’t even been charged with?

  18. If Batherson and Formenton are named to be involved in this, we still don't even know for sure a crime was committed. We have an alleged victim who claims she was coerced and raped, and 8 guys who say (through a lawyer) that there was sex but it was consensual, and claim to have text and video evidence that it was consensual.

  19. Bettman is under a ton of pressure given all of the sexual assault cases which have plagued hockey for years. He doesn't need criminal charges to suspend for an indefinite period. Only time will tell though

  20. In my completely speculative opinion, I'm starting to think that Formenton is almost certainly involved. I found it weird that he hadn't been signed and he didn't go to arbitration especially after the season he just had. I feel like those two things are connected and it was in the town that he played junior in. The text messages seemed like the player knew the girl and her parents which would make sense for a player of the London Knights. I've heard that it might be other London Knights players so I'm not saying those were Formentons texts (that's a big stretch at this point). But that's just my opinion that doesn't matter at the end of the day lol

  21. I thought it was stated somewhere that formenton would have been too young to be in the bar in the first place. Doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't there but also presents some doubt

  22. Hockey Canada is an NSO meaning national sport organisation. Its supposed to oversee operations and the good of the game for ALL canadians participating in the sport. That includes boys and girls, coaches, trainers .... Everyone. Somehow they appear to have become addicted to the money generated from WJHC and ignored the thousands of other participants. They have without a doubt ignored thier primary mandate. For sure the players involved in this incident are gonna pay a heavy price but let us not forget that those in charge who should have one job, to ensure safe sport , must be held accountable and banned from contact with any youth sports for fucking ever.

  23. I think if people want an NHL SA case to follow go look up Jake Virtanen, the victim shaming coming from his lawyer is awful and I hope he’s convicted because it sounds to me like it was date rape. It has much more clear info than the HC situation.

  24. This is how a lot of Sexual assault trails go, ugly verbal scratching and gnawing. There's a reason why some victims are so hesitant to want to go to court at all, because not only do the events of the crime have to be re-brought up, but they have to be expanded on in detail and THEN the defence is going to doing whatever it can to win the fight.

  25. Formenton can be found tagged on an Instagram post from his friend that are dated June 18, 2018. Everyone in the two pictures, including Formenton, are dressed for what looks like a themed party that does not fit the character of the pictures taken at Jack's on the same night.

  26. I'll just point out that Batherson is hanging out with two guys who say they never had any contact whatsoever with the Girl. Not saying that means anything but if he was with them the entire night (It looks like he was with Howden the entire time at the bar) then he probably had nothing to do with it either, that is if their statements are true.

  27. "I will not post there photos out of respect for the plaintiff" "Also, here is where you can find them or DM me for them"

  28. There's no need for a "megathread" I'm tired if hearing about it. Let them do their investigation and we will hear the results. Don't need a bunch of reddit detectives trying to figure it out.

  29. The point of a megathread is so it doesn’t continuously eat up oxygen in the rest of the sub. People that are interested in discussing it can go here and the rest who aren’t interested can avoid it.

  30. Batherson was literally just on Team Canada, why would you put Batherson on team Canada if you were in the process of settling a lawsuit that had him as one of the accused? (Hockey Canada does know the identities despite what they have said) We now have texts from players that were shown to police and the hockey Canada investigator back in 2018 and 2019 respectively so it is pretty obvious they knew who was involved or at the very least some of who was involved.

  31. Because the John Does weren’t named in the lawsuit and Hockey Canada claims to have never been able to confirm their identities.

  32. I was reading through the testimony of Tom Renney and Scott Smith and they both claim to have 0 knowledge of what players were being accused.

  33. Innocent until proven guilty so I am reserving judgement, but if Batherson and Formenton were involved in this, throw the book at them. No "young men and not scholars of informed consent" bullshit. We're not talking about unwanted flirting, we're talking about a gang rape.

  34. I'm not sure "being involved" should be the threshold. If there was consent, it's surely not something I'd be up for, but it's not a crime. Everything is pure speculation right now and presuming guilt. How about we wait for the facts?

  35. Some super shady behaviour went down by all involved. The spotlight is now firmly on this. All we can do is sit back and wait. Funnily enough, I have complete faith in Bettman on this one. He will make sure this doesn't reflect badly on the league. He was super pissed when the Habs drafted that player and led rules changes since there were no rules at the time he could enforce.

  36. Bettman is going to throw the absolute book at anyone involved. Speculation is worthless but I could see a year+, easily. Sexual assault is by far the biggest issue in hockey right now, and I would hope Bettman implements an absolute zero tolerance policy at the highest level. It's impossible to grow our sport when all of the biggest stories revolve around sexual misconduct.

  37. I think people find it tremendously hard to be against certain behaviours while also staying neutral until knowing more information with regards who is at fault and what transpired exactly. This cancel culture we’re in just calls for blood and nothing more.

  38. There's a whole lot of difference between people being worried that two of the team's core players were directly involved in a poorly handled sexual assault case, which is now national news (for being very poorly handled), and whatever you call cancel culture.

  39. Strongly agree with lazarinoh, and I've seem some people make this argument so I wanna talk about it specifically;

  40. It's rarely the case that consent is revoked without a verbal or physical statement (i.e. a push). When someone doesn't want something to continue, they usually say so.

  41. The question to add should also be what is a valid consent? if you give someone the date drug or get them pissed drunk, that does not constitute consent and alcohol may have played a factor here according to reports. So although you ask interesting questions they may be moot here

  42. This is a great idea HP. I get that people are concerned, we're all concerned, but there's just too many of the same thread popping up every day.

  43. Most of them aren't from regulars, either. Bunch of amateurs who fancy themselves justice detectives spamming up the sub fishing for info

  44. You're right -- she gave consent. The problem is that she did so while being heavily intoxicated. That's like a drunk claiming they are a great driver in their influenced condition; you know they're not of right mind to make those decisions. Still lots to unravel for sure, but if any are going to use the "she gave consent" argument, then their collective dicks -- rather than common sense -- were making the judgement decisions for them that night.

  45. I mean, we know what happened -- the contemporaneous texts from the unnamed player, and the woman saying she was uncomfortable with the 7 other players coming in.... It's pretty damning. Just because she didn't choose to participate in the original investigation doesn't mean things won't come to light now. And when they do come to light, Gary Bettman has the full power to discipline any involved players as he sees fit.

  46. Agreed on all counts. There are so many people assuming guilt on certain guys, harassing players on social media and trying to play amateur detective picking apart the stories of people who say they weren't involved. That stuff does nobody any good.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *